2005-06-21 10:43

嘿嘿,科隆古乐团那个勃兰登堡似乎是最乱来的一张,像开超音速飞机一样.Opus 111的话我觉得还是那套"真相危机"妙(La verita in cimento)不过我等光靠下载的就无所谓了,一下子把几套大部头的歌剧都弄下来了,Naive的东西在大陆实在不好搞,所以也没有选择不选择的问题了.

2005-06-22 07:18

Sounds weird but I have never tried their Brandenburg.....
But this happened to remind me: My favourite "Australian Brandenburg Orchestra" must be another "Rock'n'Roll" orchestra! I didn't have Vivaldi's "Four Seasons" on CD. All those "classics" I only have on LPs and left them in China. So after the "Four Seasons" concert given by ABO, driven by curiosity, I bought an Accardo which is supposed to be classical. But the performance sounded simply boring! (I love Accardo anyway and this has nothing to do with the violins.) Does that mean my taste has been spoiled by the "Rock'n'Roll" performers?

2005-06-22 19:59

还有就是我仍然不觉得 pasticcio 这种形式有什么不好，毕竟我们不能用今天的观点去评判当时的风气。Mathias大概是位 purist，呵呵。
Vivaldi 第一“抄袭有理” ---- 当时的时尚如此，听众对作曲家们的互相“借用”不但心知肚明，还欢迎得很），第二你不能不承认，他大量套用别人的作品却能做到天衣无缝，也是一种才能。相比之下，我倒是顶讨厌现在的唱片出版业把某几段不相关的音乐从不同的歌剧中割离出来“堆”成一张“集锦CD”的做法。:-P

记得上个星期我请一家唱片店的老板推荐一套 Naive 的 Vivaldi，结果他推荐的不是歌剧，而是一张宗教作品集。尤其是对 Sara Mingardo 赞不绝口。

2005-06-23 10:34

个人并不是什么purist啦,只是对pasticcio有点害怕,抄是可以的,但最好不要连歌词都不变就抄上去,这样很容易让人觉得随便哪个人都可以这么做,即便是今人,凭着如此大的曲目储备,也大可以写一堆pasticcio出来,所以个人感觉与其录很多pasticcio,还不如多录些原创性比较大的作品.

当然,这些看法并不基于作品本身,许多pasticcio的确很美,这点也是无法否认滴: )

另外孤陋得问一下:那套Vivaldi是封面白衣红十字架女郎那张还是头戴花环的少女的双张?

2005-06-23 12:37

But I found no reason for him to change the lyrics ah~~ He simply did an honest pasticcio. If he did change the lyrics that would have been a mean plagiarism. :-)

It's not that you're 孤陋 but I didn't put it clear. :-P
I think it's the latter, if my memory doesn't go wrong.

2005-06-23 19:58

白天可能没说清楚，我的意思是说，当时那些 pasticci， 跟后世的“抄袭”概念完全不同，或者说实际上是两回事。而且他用原文的歌词用得又那么贴切，和脚本里的剧情水乳交融天衣无缝，为什么要改？

今天下班路上把老兄推荐的 La verita in cimento 买了，还没来得及听。同时买的还有Biondi那张Scarlatti的“至圣三一”，看看他们是怎么“摇滚”Scarlatti的！:-P

2005-06-23 22:41

嘿嘿,那双张是04年留声机巴罗克声乐部门大奖,怪不得老板向你推荐.

抄袭的问题我认为即便pasticcio也有个剧本才是,从他初抄来的话如果碰到合适的地方不改歌词也没问题,而像Bajazet抄了Riccardo Broschi的Idaspe中某曲,既然本是Farinellli主唱,那么估计不大会是Irene的唱段,而Vivaldi挪过去后不改歌词,只能证明这部歌剧的剧本也是拼出来的.但剧本是在1711年为Francesco Gasparini所写的,应该为原创无疑.我就纳闷这里,为何不改歌词照样能贴切原作呢?1711年时应该还没Hasse,那后来借来的音乐居然能和剧本融为一起,我还是搞不懂pasticcio其中的奥妙啊.

2005-06-24 08:31

Haha it's utterly pointless to continue our discussion on this issue without knowing the true nature of Riccardo Broschi's original opera (or even if it survives!). Could it be possible that the aria in question that we heard as on the "Jacobs+Genaux's CD" exists only in the form of Vivaldi's adaption, which means although the score was by Sig Broschi (whom the CD publisher honoured by putting his name on it) the lyrics have already been radically changed?

Or, since it's not unusual in those days that sometimes castrati sang female roles in opere, it might be that Farinelli once acted Idaspe?

Vivaldi's pasticcio Bajazet does have a consistent libretto (not a made-up patchwork!) which was by Agostino Piovene decades earlier though NOT written for Vivaldi of course. A bunch of composers used the same libretto as Vivaldi did so I imagine that chances are the arias Vivaldi adapted from other composers were from opere based on the same libretto?

Vivaldi used Hasse's arias in his Bajazet in 1735 when the latter was 36. That can answer your last question. :-)

2005-06-24 09:24

"it might be that Farinelli once acted Idaspe"
Sorry I meant "Irene". :-P

2005-06-24 16:34

懂了懂了,茅塞顿开啊
在不了解一些关键资料前的确不能妄加评论了